[Ferro List] List Digest, Vol 2, Issue 116

Mon Jun 9 21:31:22 MDT 2008

hi,

maybe i missed an e-mail or something about list change, but i prefer the old format to the list digest  format i am now recieving.
is there a way for me to switch back? or not
thanks
chris

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From: list-request at ferrocement.net
To: list at ferrocement.net
Subject: List Digest, Vol 2, Issue 116
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2008 12:00:02 -0600

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Today's Topics:

   1. List digest format (Janoahsh)
   2. Patents (Uwe Brunjes)
   3. Re: Patents (Keith B)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2008 11:40:06 -0800
From: "Janoahsh" <janoahsh at alaska.net>
Subject: [Ferro List] List digest format
To: <list at ferrocement.net>
Message-ID: <000301c8c99f$7510fdd0$7da470d1 at gateway>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="windows-1250"

Thank you for the digest format.  I didn't think I would like it, but it
does make reading and filing simpler.
Thank You everyone on the list for contributing.
It's all good and appropriate where it is appropriate.
janosh

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Message: 2
Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2008 14:19:02 -0700 (PDT)
From: Uwe Brunjes <ubrunjes at yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ferro List] Patents
To: list at ferrocement.net
Message-ID: <309815.64665.qm at web50507.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

As weird as it might sound, in my opinion the clear and unambiguous bottom line here is, ?it all depends!? Let me try to explain with examples.
Lately we have heard a lot about magnesium cement and all its true advantages. There are many patents to cover different related inventions, but nobody has gone crazy trying to buy patents and producing this so much better cement. Why?
The thing is that those who already produce cement also have a lot of money tied up in calcareous rock. They don?t want to see its value going down the drain. And those who have the money to invest, but no experience with the cement market, obviously don?t want to risk a ?bar fight? with nasty giants like CEMEX.
So what will happen? Those who invested in researching and patenting this kind of cement can safely kiss their money good bye. Plus we won?t see too much magnesium cement until the patents expire. The inventors could as well have put their invention in the public domain. Less grief and less expense!
So you might say that patenting doesn?t make sense. As I said above, it depends! The older guys among you might remember the crown cork on (glass) beer bottles. Somebody invented them last century and got rich selling the licenses for using the patent. Why? Because there was an immediate market!
Now imagine the opposite situation. What would have happened if he had put this invention in the public domain, trying to sell ?how to? instructions to the people? Maybe some historians would have bought his book to later put it in a museum, but basically he wouldn?t have made a penny with his invention! Who would make and use a crown cork at home?
Now, after receiving some input from you guys and other people, I feel like my invention is more like the crown cork, though it also has aspects of the magnesium cement (industry can wait if they want). Besides, it?s industrial in nature (John Doe won?t build it in his backyard or garage) and so evident that once you see it, I fully expect to hear hands slapping against the forehead around the world. People will understand it just as fast and easy as the wheel (supposing the aliens didn?t leave it here <g>). So how could I possibly sell instructions or become the contractor who does it?
A friend who is an attorney (though not a patent attorney) also believes that ?it depends?. He feels like I should contact design departments of the related industry and tell them with very general words about my invention, plus a few of its advantages. If they are interested, we would sign a non-disclosure agreement, and then I would tell them all the details.
Another friend who is a top-notch international trader (and also an inventor) fully agrees. In fact, he is contacting companies right now regarding his latest invention. So I guess that?s the way I?ll have to proceed, unless you have any other advice to offer.

Uwe

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Message: 3
Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2008 21:32:29 -0400
From: Keith B <ferroist at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Ferro List] Patents
To: Ferrocement Discussion List <list at ferrocement.net>
Message-ID: <484C882D.5060206 at comcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Present patent law has a number of perverse effects.  One not mentioned 
is to stifle communication.  The case in point is Stutz Motor Co., and 
it's the classic example given to pretty much everyone trained to deal 
with intellectual property in industry. 

An inventor tried to sell Stutz Motor an automotive idea, but they 
weren't interested.  They had come up with the same thing themselves 
some years earlier, but not used it as it was then inappropriate to 
their production designs.  A few years later, Stutz brought out a new 
line and used their version.  The inventor sued and won.  The court 
agreed that Stutz had invented their version independently, and had done 
so before the inventor suing had invented his, but that made no 
difference.  When Stutz looked at the inventor's offer, they had 
accepted a confidential disclosure and were forever then prevented from 
from using the idea without his permission - and that was true not only 
if they had invented theirs independently and earlier, but also even if 
the idea was unpatentable and in common use!

The result of this quirk of Intellectual Property Law, of which Patent 
Law is a large part, is that businesses which need ideas dare not look 
at most proposals or suggestions from potential inventors.    There are 
schemes to get around the problem, but they tend to be so convoluted, or 
detrimental to inventor's rights, that they act a a very major barrier 
to free technical communication.  Stutz could have avoided their problem 
by applying for a patent or making a "defensive publication", but their 
only other defense was to refuse to view the contents of  idea 
suggestions from outside their company.  (I routinely head any intended 
open technical communication with a specific disclaimer of 
confidentiality and proprietary claim to avoid causing problems and 
improving chances of opening free discussion, for just this reason.)

kb

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